ON THE FRINGE—AL TZITZIT: With apologies to Robert Frost . . .

Monday, January 09, 2012

With apologies to Robert Frost . . .

. . . I'm considering embarking on "the road not taken," Jewish-style. See the comments.

37 Comments:

Shira Salamone said...: Maybe it's dumb to write this post in the comments section, considering how much I've previously written on this topic directly on the homepage, but I guess I'm getting cautious in my old age. The problem, standing on one foot, is that I've never mentioned to anyone at the office that I've been riding the subway to shul on Shabbat, though I've mentioned it frequently on my blog. So posting a decision to rethink my "travel" plans . . .

I've backed myself into this position because I don't know how to keep my big mouth shut. I've taken members of my local synagogue to task any number of times for breaking the rules of Shabbat/Sabbath. Being no dummies, they're now firing back with charges of hypocrisy. Unfortunately for me, they're right--I can't complain about Shabbat violations while violating the Sabbath myself by getting on the subway. So, this past Shabbat, having fulfilled my commitment to serve as gabbai at my favorite egalitarian synagogue in Manhattan, I approached the "gabbai coordinator" after services, at kiddush, and asked to have my name removed from the list of gabbaim. I spoke to some of the "regulars" at kiddush, explaining my decision to attempt to become somewhat more observant, and telling them that I'd see them on Purim (when traveling is permitted). Some understood, some thought I was nuts. One schlepped me over to the rabbi to discuss the halachic issue--he said that the Conservative rabbinate's decision to allow one to travel on Shabbat applied only if one was traveling to the *nearest* synagogue, not to one's *preferred* synagogue. Sigh. This was not really a surprise.

The one who thought I was nuts was right about one thing--I really am going to miss having an opportunity to lead Musaf, lein Torah (chant the reading from a Torah scroll), chant the b'rachot/blessings before and after the haftarah (which my husband does, when I chant a haftarah at our "home" shul), and serve as gabbai. I'm also going to miss hanging out with my buddies at kiddush, as the "home" crowd tends to be old enough to be my mother. And I'll particular miss the opportunity to dance on Simchat Torah with a group of people many of whom are still young enough to be interested in dancing.

But there comes a time when one really does have to put one's money where one's (big) mouth is. I simply can't justify yelling at people for using pens as pointers while giving divrei Torah (discussions) on Shabbat (Sabbath) and/or Yom Tov (major holiday) when I myself violate another prohibition (traveling) on a regular basis.

Now if I could only figure what to do about the sedarim/seders on Pesach/Passover. As of last Pesach, our neighborhood was down to exactly two communal sedarim, both on the second night, and the one local friend who has a first-night seder . . . Let's just say that we have exactly three options: We can go to a seder at the home of people who probably don't kasher their non-kosher kitchen for Pesach, we can continue traveling by subway to the seder at our old friend's tiny apartment in Greenwich Village, or we can make our own seder and be stuck with a bunch of guest most of whom have no knowledge of seder songs, which is why I stopped making sedarim in the first place. (Why torture our kitchen-hating selves to cook for a table-full of people with whom we can't even enjoy the seder?) Stay tuned.; Mon Jan 09, 01:41:00 PM 2012
Dov said...: Question: Wasn't the decision of the CJLS about driving? What does taking the subway have to do with anything? I do understand that there could be a problem with carrying, or with teḥum issues; but I cannot see how riding a subway per se is in violation of any melakha.

Also, it is technically okay to use a pen for a pointer on Shabbat. A pen is a keli she-melakhto le-issur - an object which is used for something prohibited, and the rule is that a keli she-melakhto le-issur is permitted to be moved around either 1) to clear the space for something else; or 2) for a permitted use. The classic example of a permitted use is using a hammer to break open a walnut. The hammer is muksta because its primary usage is construction, but it may be used to break open the walnut. The pen for a pointer is no different.; Mon Jan 09, 03:44:00 PM 2012
Philo said...: Dov, using a Metrocard is unquestionably a financial transaction.; Mon Jan 09, 03:46:00 PM 2012
Philo said...: Shira,

I'm lucky enough to live close to a shul I like. (While there's a minyan on campus I'd really like to go to a few miles away from my home, my home shul is pretty nice, so I don't travel.)

That being said, I think that more important than following the letter of the law is to have a fulfilling Shabbat experience. Instead of giving up a shul where you find meaning and camaraderie, just stop giving people a hard time about their "transgressions". Live and let live, and if anyone still accuses you of hypocrisy, just apologize and move on.

Don't give up on your beautiful Shabbatot in your shul.; Mon Jan 09, 03:50:00 PM 2012
Philo said...: Also, using a pen as a pointer is at most an issue of muktza, not worth making someone feel bad over.; Mon Jan 09, 03:53:00 PM 2012
Dov said...: Philo -

About the metrocard, I hadn't thought of that. (Living in NJ I was thinking of an old fashioned bus/train ticket that one could purchase before Shabbat.); Mon Jan 09, 04:01:00 PM 2012
Philo said...: Dov,

I think the main issue is the financial transaction. After all, paper money is just a symbol of worth, but we can't use it on Shabbat anyway. So a NJT train ticket has the value transferred to it, and using it on Shabbat might still be considered a transaction. The conductor takes the ticket in exchange for the train ride.

Shira - The above is just technical halachic aspects. My advice is unchanged. Yes, it may be technically forbidden, but I still think you should go to "your" shul.; Mon Jan 09, 04:13:00 PM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: "Wasn't the decision of the CJLS about driving?"

Yes, the decision of the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards concerned driving, but I think that taking the subway is analogous. (G'zeirah shavah/Similar writings?) One also triggers an electric "card reader" when "swiping" the Metrocard, thus activitating an electric current on Shabbat.

Thanks for the information about objects that one isn't supposed to use on Shabbat ("muksteh" objects). I didn't know that certain uses of "muksteh" objects might be permissible on Shabbat.

Philo, there are drawbacks to trying to become more consistently observant--I'd love to continue going to "my" shul--but I can't get around the feeling that I'm being a hypocrite. I should also come clean and admit that it's not worth the flack I'm getting for setting a bad example as the wife of the chair of the Ritual Committee and "acting rabbi." Next Simchat Torah is going to be as boring as this past Simchat Torah, but at least I'll feel that I'm doing the right thing.; Mon Jan 09, 06:07:00 PM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: Um, make that "activating."

Dov, my Hebrew spelling is *also* a work in progress. That's "muksta," not muksteh? Okay, so maybe using a pen as a pointer might pass, but the party in question still has to carry the pen to shul, and our neighborhood has no eruv.; Mon Jan 09, 06:15:00 PM 2012
Dov said...: LOL yeah you got me on that, I misspelled. Forgive me. Of course, it's muktsa, muktza, muqẓa, or any other variation of that, but certainly not muksta :)

(The "a" is correct though. As far as I know.)

About the metrocard, as I told Philo I forgot about that too. Guess I'm having a bit of a rough day...; Mon Jan 09, 08:50:00 PM 2012
TOTJ Steve said...: With all due respect to those of my fellow commenters who are far more strict in their observance, and given the various circumstances you've explained over the years, I believe you are sacrificing a very significant personal aspect of shabbat to make this commitment. So, you're going to give up a particularly personal and joyful aspect of your shabbat to avoid traveling? And how soon do you think you will reach the point where you begrudge shabbat as something merely to get through, rather than being something you look forward to weekly? While I recognize that you rarely miss an opportunity to complain about a religious hardship, why would you impose an additional one upon yourself like this when it is unnecessary.

I am very sympathetic to your desire to continually raise your level of observance, which is only laudable; but in this case aren't you "cutting your nose to spite your face"? You are not presently purely shomer shabbat or shomer yom tov. As you make your plans to relocate, it's clear that will be part of new life. But why take on that obligation, which will not enhance your enjoyment of these days, when you're not geographically located to do so?

You are overlooking the fact that we are all "reform" (note the lower case 'r') jews. As long as you have the intention to increase your observance, the fact that it is not perfect today, does not mean you must change immediately, particularly when this additional obligation would be such a profound and not generally positive change, I urge you to reconsider.

Perhaps the better approach, short-term, would be to stop worrying about other people's observance and continue to find enjoyment in your current level of observance with participation in a kehilla that means something to you.

And please, stop worrying about what other people think. The energy you expend in this way could be put to much better use.; Mon Jan 09, 08:59:00 PM 2012
The Reform Baal Teshuvah said...: "Perhaps the better approach, short-term, would be to stop worrying about other people's observance and continue to find enjoyment in your current level of observance with participation in a kehilla that means something to you."

THIS!

It's more important for you to be able to serve in a community that can appreciate your service than to stay off the subway.

And NO conservative Jew has any right to call another Conservative Jew a hypocrite. Conservative Judaism is all about "finding that balance."

As for your own attitudes about Shabbat/Kashrut/Tzniut . . . cut yourself and everyone around you some slack.

And please understand that the thing with the bugs and the vegetables . . . is being directed by a patriarchal agenda that has everything to do with avoiding being made to eat broccoli by the matriarchy, and nothing to do with Kashrut. They won't stop until Cholent is the only thing that's kosher.

Ride the subway. Be a gabbai. Don't turn your back on a community because you're too "frum." That's, like, the exact opposite of what Judaism is for.; Tue Jan 10, 12:31:00 AM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: Dov and/or Philo, sorry about the confusion--I thought the word mukzta was spelled with an e rather than an a.

"So, you're going to give up a particularly personal and joyful aspect of your shabbat to avoid traveling? And how soon do you think you will reach the point where you begrudge shabbat as something merely to get through, rather than being something you look forward to weekly?"

Good question, TOTJ Steve. Maybe I should try it for a few months and see how it goes before I make a long-time decision.

"As you make your plans to relocate, it's clear that will be part of new life. But why take on that obligation, which will not enhance your enjoyment of these days, when you're not geographically located to do so?"

Much as I'd love to say that we're definitely moving, I think our financial position whenever my husband choses to retire--he's decided to work through the *next* tax and academic year, rather than retiring after this tax and academic year--will determine our final decision. If we stay where we are, then all bets are off. We don't expect our local Conservative or our local Orthodox synagogue to survive for more than roughly five years. Since I can't see not going to shul for the rest of my life, I'll be back on the subway to shul, if we stay in our current apartment. In the meantime . . .

"Perhaps the better approach, short-term, would be to stop worrying about other people's observance and continue to find enjoyment in your current level of observance with participation in a kehilla that means something to you."

Maybe I should give this decision further thought.

"As for your own attitudes about Shabbat/Kashrut/Tzniut . . . cut yourself and everyone around you some slack."

Good point, Reform BT. I'm having trouble living up to such high standards, and should leave everyone else alone re same.

"And please understand that the thing with the bugs and the vegetables . . . is being directed by a patriarchal agenda that has everything to do with avoiding being made to eat broccoli by the matriarchy, and nothing to do with Kashrut. They won't stop until Cholent is the only thing that's kosher."

:)

I actually have two different theories regarding the recent obsession with bug and worm infestation as a kashrut issue. I don't think this theory is one that I originated, but it's certainly true that the extra time needed to check fresh vegetables and fruits while preparing food may be a subtle backlash against women who'd rather spend an hour studying Gemara and/or finishing a client's tax return than washing enough fresh spinach to feed a family and inspecting each leaf separately over a light box. (This assumes, of course, that the rabbis who insist on these time-consuming "bug checks" assume that the food preparer is usually female.) In addition,re-reading this post led me to a totally different thought, namely, that the new obsession with bugs and worms may have an economic basis. It has not escaped my attention that the OK thinks the only permissible broccoli florets are not only frozen ones, but specifically those produced by companies serving a largely Orthodox market ("Bodek, Eden and Golden Glow").; Tue Jan 10, 11:55:00 AM 2012
Philo said...: What TOTJ Steve said. He said it much better than I could, but I agree with him 100%; Tue Jan 10, 12:41:00 PM 2012
The Physicist said...: I still maintain that the rules concerning using electricity on Shabbat are not now and never were valid to begin with. It is based on a large misunderstanding by old rabbis who did not understand what electricity was when it was first invented. They interpreted fire to mean "anything that gives off light" and thought electricity was lightbulbs. Now one can argue about turning lights on and off, and obviously using an electric stove actually is lighting a fire and is thus not allowed, but there is no reason to have a complete prohibition on electronic devices that do not violate other rules.

Also, as to the metrocard and ticket discussion, I would suggest then that you stop going to high holiday services since showing your tickets counts as a transaction and thus you are breaking the rules. If those tickets are fine, then both NJ train tickets and metrocards (subject to the above about electricity) are also fine. You can't have it both ways just because one of these involves a shul.; Tue Jan 10, 01:08:00 PM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: TOTJ Steve certainly said a mouthful, but you made a good point, as well: "Ride the subway. Be a gabbai. Don't turn your back on a community because you're too "frum.""

That's really the crux of the issue--should I turn my back on egalitarian Conservative Judaism because I'm currently more observant that most of my egal. Conserv. friends, and switch to the "observant" camp? As usual, I have a foot in each camp. But while sitting on a fence can become rather uncomfortable in the long term, choosing a side is no picnic, either.; Tue Jan 10, 01:10:00 PM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: "I still maintain that the rules concerning using electricity on Shabbat are not now and never were valid to begin with. It is based on a large misunderstanding by old rabbis who did not understand what electricity was when it was first invented."

This is a classic example of why rabbis need a broad secular education, and/or, at the very least, a willingness to admit that there are things that they don't understand and to ask for help from experts in secular fields.

"Also, as to the metrocard and ticket discussion, I would suggest then that you stop going to high holiday services since showing your tickets counts as a transaction and thus you are breaking the rules. If those tickets are fine, then both NJ train tickets and metrocards (subject to the above about electricity) are also fine."

Hmm, I think you may have a point. I've stopped carrying my ticket on Yom Kippur because our neighborhood has no eruv, though whether I could get away with that in a shul in which I wasn't known is an interesting question. But I hadn't thought that showing a pre-paid ticket might constitute a financial transaction. Time to try out the "Ask a Halakhic Question" button (halakhah@mechonhadar.org) at Mechon Hadar.; Tue Jan 10, 01:51:00 PM 2012
Woodrow/Conservadox said...: It sounds to me like you are reasonably at peace with becoming more Shabbat-observant, and from my point of view (having made the step you're making a few yrs ago) I say yasher koach!

Pesach seems to be a bigger problem for you. So here are a few thoughts:

1. Can you get away with a smaller seder so you don't have as many annoying guests?

2. If Pesach songs is your only issue can you do the songs after the seder when the guests are gone?

3. And of course you can always move. It sounds like your ideal neighborhood isn't really an option because of commuting issues, but there are other areas which (although flawed in their own way) have communities big enough for a bigger supply of seder hosts/guests.; Wed Jan 11, 08:34:00 AM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: 1. Not sure. The folks whom I'd like to invite--the ones likely to know the music and be interested in actually discussing the seder story and text, rather than just zipping through it--don't live in this neighborhood, and we have a limited capacity for overnight guests.

2. Good grief, Woodrow, we can't move Hallel!

3. Moving would be ideal, but we'll have to determine whether we'll be able to afford it, given that our housing expense would be substantially higher--there's no such thing as a cheap Jewish neighborhood.; Wed Jan 11, 12:51:00 PM 2012
Meggie said...: I know that this is probably a silly thing to ask, but is there no way that you could be hosted by someone who lives in your desired neighborhood, at least from time to time? Does your preferred shul have any home hospitality programs in place? If not, you should figure out how to start some; I think it's the biggest place that Conservative shuls fall down in comparison to Orthodox ones. I lived in New York and know that apartments rarely have guest rooms, but surely you have friends who would be willing to host you once or twice a month, or for Pesach!

Also, I'm only 24 and used to long walks, but I used to walk over 100 blocks to get to my preferred shul-- is that just totally not an option for you because of time or physical condition?

I would also just like to add that I admire your adherence to halakha. With respect to The Reform Baal Teshuva, Conservative Judaism is not about "finding that balance"-- it is about halakha, with the understanding that halakha can be reinterpreted as in the days of the Rabbis. I teach Sunday school at my shul, and I was shocked two weeks ago to hear that not a single one of my seventh-grade students (many of whom have already become b'nei mitzvah) had ever heard that their movement is a halakhic one. My own biggest halakhic weakness is eating dairy in uncertified restaurants; as many people have said, there would be a lot more (and cheaper!) certified restaurants if Conservative Jews were appropriately strict.

I'm sure that you can find a way to attend your shul at least intermittently!; Thu Jan 12, 09:57:00 AM 2012
TOTJ Steve said...: Sorry, I can't resist responding to Meggie's comment "Conservative Judaism is not about "finding that balance"-- it is about halakha, with the understanding that halakha can be reinterpreted as in the days of the Rabbis".

First, I think RBT was expressing a personal opinion, rather than official Conservative dogma.

Perhaps more importantly, there is an ongoing debate as to whether Conservative judaism is a halachic movement. Sometime that debate rages just below the surface, other times it boils up into full view. As someone entrenched in Conservative institutions -- shul, Ramah, Schechter and JTS, I have heard Rabbi Gilman challenge the "halachic movement" description on several occasions. While there are those on the CJLS who are true, modern halachists, there are also those on the committee who take a decidedly nonhalachic approach to the law.

So, you really have your choice when you affiliate conservative.; Thu Jan 12, 10:21:00 AM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: Meggie, I don't really know anyone at the Conservative synagogue in the neighborhood that we're now considering well enough to ask for home hospitality for the two of us, and I see no indication of a Hachnasat Orchim/Hospitality Committee on their website. Walking to a synagogue outside of our neighborhood is not really an option for me because I still have occasional foot pain. The only time I leave our apartment building without a cane is Shabbat, when walking to our local Conservative shul, which is only a few blocks away. Carrying a cane would enable me to walk much farther, but I can't carry a cane on Shabbat because there's no eruv in our home neighborhood, though there is one around the "destination" neighborhood. (Yes, I do carry one when walking to the subway on Shabbat, but I'm trying to avoid both the riding and the carrying on Shabbat.); Thu Jan 12, 11:47:00 AM 2012
Miami Al said...: None of your problems are regarding Halachic, they are issues of hypocrisy. The issues of hypocrisy have NOTHING to do with which violations you commit or others commit, they have EVERYTHING to do with your decision to play Shabbat Police in your Shul and therefore opened yourself up to charges of hypocrisy. Clearly the Shul you are traveling to has no problem with your level of observance, as they want you to stay in the rotation.

Stop commenting on the observances of others. You can do it for selfish reasons, to not invite charges of hypocrisy. You can do it for halachic reasons, every aborted BT has a story of a judgmental fool at Shul that pushed them away when they were getting into things, and it's putting up a stumbling block. Or you can do it because it's freaking rude behavior and you're supposed to treat people as you would like to be treated, how are you liking the charges of hypocrisy? Don't like it, then you shouldn't do it to others.; Thu Jan 12, 11:53:00 AM 2012
Miami Al said...: If you want to get into the Halacha:

1. You can pre-pay for a transaction on Shabbat. You can post-pay, you just can't pay on Shabbat. Regarding the metro card, is the card refundable? If you put $20 on the card, use $5, can you call them for a refund of the $15? If not, then the money is spent when you put it on the card, NOT when the transaction occurs.

2. The auto-reloading MetroCard. Your swiping it COULD cause it to drop below the re-up threshold, or it COULD NOT. Since most transactions won't cause a re-up, there is no reason to assume that it would. Besides, credit card transactions don't clear on Shabbat anyway, even if the Transaction Date is Saturday, the posting date is Monday, so no financial transaction occurs on Shabbat.

3. Unlimited Pass: could you just swing for the unlimited pass instead of paying per-use? The 30-day Unlimited Ride card is $104, is that THAT much more than you spend on your MetroCard? That would eliminate ANY financial transaction from taking place on Shabbat.

2. Electronic swiping:

A) Can you hand the card to an operator who will swipe it for you? I've never had that problem with a financial transaction. My kid's medicine wasn't ready before Shabbat, I walked over, carrying an FSA debit card (I would have used a credit card otherwise, but since this can ONLY be used for medical reasons, it seemed like a "better" financial instrument). I went to the pharmacy, the pharmacy tech loaded up the transaction, I said "I can't sign, it's the Jewish sabbath" she turned the device around, wrote an X, and we moved on with life.

B) Is it an electric smart cart or a magnetic stripe reader? If the former, you're probably engaged in a semi-prohibited electronic action (semi because the prohibition regarding non-incandescent/non-heat electricity are at best a dumb custom). If it's the latter, you're not really doing anything. You're swiping a plastic card (permitted) alongside a metal device (permitted). You're not doing anything more interesting than putting a magnet on the fridge and taking it down, everything else is done by already on electronic equipment. Seems less exciting electrically than my Shabbat-mode Oven.

C) Carrying: make Shabbat bracelet that holds the metro card and your key, like people do for their keys when they don't "hold by the eruv."

D) People get all excited about swipe cards, they're magnetic strips, not that exciting. A physical key is preferable (hotels, etc), but pretending that swiping your magnetic strip is fire is just silly.

I don't know any "normal" Orthodox people that freak out about magnetic cards in hotels. They ask for a key, if the hotel can't provide it, then they ask a staff member to open their door if someone is around. If nobody is around, they stick it in their off-hand and move on with life.

Life is too short to obsess about magnetic strips.

Are their abnormal Orthodox people that obsess over all these things? Absolutely, but I find it best not to converse with them about things. They are generally a combination of ignorant or OCD, and I am not a qualified religious teacher to help with the former NOT a qualified mental health professional to deal with the latter, and since they might be ill, it's best not to cause them to get worse.; Thu Jan 12, 11:53:00 AM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: TOTJ Steve said, "While there are those on the CJLS who are true, modern halachists, there are also those on the committee who take a decidedly nonhalachic approach to the law.

So, you really have your choice when you affiliate conservative."

My current approach to the "Conservative Movement can't make up its mind" complaint is that the Orthodox world is equally diverse. On one hand, you have the folks who support women's advanced Gemara studies and a man's right to cover his head with whatever head-covering he chooses. On the other hand, you have those who think that any man who doesn't cover his head with a black hat or a streimel isn't Orthodox, or, at the extreme, you have the fanatics who spit on little girls because their sleeves don't cover their elbows. We Jews are a contentious lot, no matter what label we prefer.; Thu Jan 12, 12:02:00 PM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: Miami Al, yeah, I get the part about playing Observance "Enforcer." That's how I got myself into this mess. :(

I'm already using the 30-day Unlimited Ride card, so maybe the financial-transcation problem isn't an issue.

"Can you hand the card to an operator who will swipe it for you?"

This is NYC. Good luck even finding a metrocard-booth clerk (since the NYC Transit Authority is trying to replace most of them with metrocard vending machines), much less one who's willing to leave his/her booth and lock it up just to swipe a metrocard for someone who's perfectly capable of swiping for him/herself.

"Is it an electric smart cart or a magnetic stripe reader?"

Since it has a brown stripe on the bottom, I'm guessing it's a magnetic card reader.

"If the former, you're probably engaged in a semi-prohibited electronic action (semi because the prohibition regarding non-incandescent/non-heat electricity are at best a dumb custom). If it's the latter, you're not really doing anything. You're swiping a plastic card (permitted) alongside a metal device (permitted)."

Er, okay. I think. Any comments from The Physicist?

"Carrying: make Shabbat bracelet that holds the metro card and your key, like people do for their keys when they don't "hold by the eruv."

An interesting suggestion. Any suggestions re carrying a cane without an eruv? I tried actually using it for the entire walk to and from shul, and found that my formerly-broken wrists don't take kindly to that kind of constant stress. Generally, I only need my cane for roughly 10 steps--then the pain goes away. So using a cane for every step, which I understand is permissible, doesn't work for me, while carrying it and using it if and when I need it, which does work for me, isn't permissible without an eruv, or so I've been told. Sigh.; Thu Jan 12, 12:31:00 PM 2012
Miami Al said...: Shira,

Regarding the cane, ask a Rabbi, not the internet. You'll generally get a more lenient opinion than anyone will publicly post.

Regarding the swipe, ask a Rabbi you feel comfortable with if you can use it with a Shinui.

Remember, the issue of "traveling" doesn't apply in NYC, you never get far enough to "leave civilization" and create a problem. If you are far enough that you can't see a house/place of residence, prohibitions on travel apply, but there are a bunch of leniencies for travel already began (caravanning in the dessert and leaving the caravan would be life threatening). Starting on a journey on Shabbat, however, is MUCH more complicate.

The issue of "driving" is the issue of a combustion engine and aish/fire, not "traveling." So the subway is NOT analogous to driving.; Thu Jan 12, 01:08:00 PM 2012
jdub said...: I'm with Miami Al. Quit bitching about everyone else and they'll stop hocking you for your hypocrisy.

To TOTJ Steve, I'm not conservo any more (but I did the USY and JTS Joint Program thing) and while I love Neil Gillman as a person, he is not now, nor has he ever been, an halachic authority, nor did anyone really take him seriously as to that issue. Neil was probably closer to Recon than Conservo. And talk about hypocrisy, he'd daven at the egal minyan because he believed in egalitarianism, but would come daven at the trad minyan on Yom Tov because he was a Cohen and wanted to duchan!; Thu Jan 12, 01:09:00 PM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: "Regarding the cane, ask a Rabbi, not the internet. You'll generally get a more lenient opinion than anyone will publicly post."

:)

Regarding the swipe, ask a Rabbi you feel comfortable with if you can use it with a Shinui.

Finding a rabbi, in a shul without one, is half the fun, of course. :(

"The issue of "driving" is the issue of a combustion engine and aish/fire, not "traveling." So the subway is NOT analogous to driving."

I've heard that, years ago, Parisian Jews used to pre-pay their Metro tickets, then ride the Metro on Shabbat, on the grounds that it's not running just for them anyway.

'Starting on a journey on Shabbat, however, is MUCH more complicate."

Miami Al, thanks for pointing out that major detail.

"I'm with Miami Al. Quit bitching about everyone else and they'll stop hocking you for your hypocrisy."

I certainly hope you're right, JDub. It's worth a try on general principles anyway--my critical behavior *is* quite judgmental and rude. I don't need a yeshiva education to know that my middot need work.; Thu Jan 12, 01:27:00 PM 2012
Miami Al said...: "Orthodox world is equally diverse"

No, it's not. The phrase "Orthodox" encompasses a large umbrella of religious Jewish groups, that have little to no interaction.

So while yes, within "Orthodoxy" you technically have different groups, within "Modern Orthodoxy" and "Centrist Orthodoxy" you have some more consistency.; Thu Jan 12, 01:45:00 PM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: So the Orthodox world settles the whole "consistency" problem by having denominations within the denomination. :) That reminds me of an old Jewish joke: Anyone who's more observant than I am is a fanatic, and anyone who's less observant than I am isn't Jewish.; Thu Jan 12, 01:58:00 PM 2012
Miami Al said...: "Orthodoxy" isn't a "denomination" in such a manner. It's an umbrella term to group together Shomer Shabbat Jews.

There IS a centralized Conservative "law committee" to discuss Halacha. There is no such "Orthodox" animal.

The RCA represents YU Judaism, relying on YU Rosh Yeshiva Poskim. Agudat represents their group.; Thu Jan 12, 02:07:00 PM 2012
Miami Al said...: Regarding a Rabbi, why not the Rabbi of the Shul you like going to that spoke with you about your issues. Perhaps he can help.; Thu Jan 12, 02:08:00 PM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: "Orthodoxy" isn't a "denomination" in such a manner. It's an umbrella term to group together Shomer Shabbat Jews."

Okay, Al, that's probably true. It also reminds me of a conversation I had with our local synagogue's last rabbi. When I told him that I thought the definition of an Orthodox Jew was a person who was shomer mitzvot (a person who observes the commandments) in accordance with Orthodox interpretation of the mitzvot, he looked at me as if I had two heads. Apparently, in some circles, one isn't "frum" unless one dresses entirely in black and white, wears a hat/shietel, and, as Reform BT joked in a previous comment, eats nothing but chulent. :) Fortunately, there are still plenty of sane Orthodox Jews out there.; Thu Jan 12, 02:30:00 PM 2012
Shira Salamone said...: "Regarding a Rabbi, why not the Rabbi of the Shul you like going to that spoke with you about your issues. Perhaps he can help."

That's a possibility. Alternatively, maybe the rabbi of the egalitarian Conservative synagogue where we're likely to end up, after our local shul closes its doors--whether we move to that neighborhood or just end up on the subway on Shabbos again--might be a good candidate for my questions.; Thu Jan 12, 02:36:00 PM 2012
TOTJ Steve said...: Jdub said:

"To TOTJ Steve, I'm not conservo any more (but I did the USY and JTS Joint Program thing) and while I love Neil Gillman as a person, he is not now, nor has he ever been, an halachic authority, nor did anyone really take him seriously as to that issue."

Don't underestimate Rabbi Gillman's influence, particularly on the more recent crop of JTS rabbinical grads, who see his approach (he speaks in terms of an "aggadic" tradition, rather than "halachic") as license to reconcile tradition with their prevailing [secular] liberal ideas. Until recently, he spent a fair amount of time on the circuit, as a scholar in residence, and having seen him in such venues on multiple occasions giving essentially the same talk, he reaches a lot of jews in the pews. And I believe his approach has influenced people like Rabbi Dorf, who has certainly used his position on the CJLS to move Conservative approaches to halacha to reconcile it with prevailing liberal ideas. I don't necessarily disagree with the results, but I've been extremely uncomfortable with the process.

I hope you enjoyed your time in Morningside Heights. My older daughter, after 4 years of Prozdor at JTS, now attends one of those local colleges, but not the joint program, although she has many good friends at List.; Thu Jan 12, 03:21:00 PM 2012
Miami Al said...: BTW, to you or anyone that reads your blog, I'm not saying that it's acceptable to Orthodox Jews to take the Subway on Shabbat. As a general rule, it's not, but the people in NYC are younger and up for multi-mile walks.

What I am saying is that I agree with your fellow congregants, you're being nuts. You're semi-Shabbat observant, and thinking about choosing an observance that is going to ruin Shabbat for you.

Obviously, the ideal is to afford the community that you like to pray in, but barring that, I think you're making a sufficient effort to keep Shabbat different from the week, that I'm not sure what you are hoping to gain with this decision.

It seems like you alienated your local synagogue with your self admitted rude behavior, and now they are "giving it back" to you. So to compensate, you're going to spend Shabbat with people that you don't like and don't seem to like you, so that those people won't be able to call you a hypocrit? This makes no sense.

Learn from your errors (being the Shabbat police), and continue your move, physical or mental, into a community that you like and seem to like you.; Sun Jan 15, 11:12:00 AM 2012

ON THE FRINGE—AL TZITZIT

Monday, January 09, 2012

With apologies to Robert Frost . . .

37 Comments:

About Me

PUBLIC SERVICE POSTS

Previous Posts

MY BLOGROLL

Archives